What is 'sampling'? - April 10, 2007
Yener Korkut wrote:
"Sampling: Sometimes enables semi-musicians and even the non-musician producers to create a piece (from start to finish) and commercially be very successful.
Sadly..."
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Mr. Bone wrote:
"while i do understand this argument and tend to agree i still have to ask....
does sampling exhibit less talent than someone playing the good 'ol I IV V progression......again.....and again.....and again.....(ad nauseum)?"
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Yener Korkut wrote:
"Yes, sampling exhibits not only less talent but moral deficiency as well, esp. if it's done w/out permission.
Sampling your own music during the process is different: For instance, some musicians choose to play the entire chord progression all throughout, and some sample the sections and loop 'em. I personally play everything all throughout - but that's just a matter of taste.
Those good 'ol formats have been the source for many musicians (in every culture btw) to create many great melodies and many more to come I believe.
Interesting and good music could be simple and/or intricate, but interesting nevertheless."
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Dark Edge Music wrote:
"Yes but djay is also right Yener. You can cut and paste other peoples' work creatively in a way which modifies the original meaning. Like the best collage art."
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Yener Korkut wrote:
"You can play other peoples work creatively and be even called "the arranger" how nice - As long as appropriate credit has been given that is. I disagree with all the rest of the sampling world. Just a personal opinion.
Sampling a bass line or a drum part is something that I'm totally against. We've suffered enough from the rap and hip hop sampling scene - The mother of all sampling mentality.
As far as not being able to afford a violinist and stuff - There are keyboards and synthesizers available, and they are played by "musician(s)" - A player can sound just like an entire orchestra but still remain as the player/artist/musician."
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killinfolk wrote:
"...and to put a slice on our personal divide Yener, i agree that the majority of samplers are lazy talentless...(insert expletive of your choice), but that doesn't make sampling evil in theory
luvs-iain"
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Yener Korkut wrote:
"Sampling is evil and has been for too many years. If a producer isn't able to play a particular instrument (two words here!!!), hire and pay for the musician who can. Pay your dues by way of either learning how to play or paying for it. Screw the McMusic mentality.
Regards"
---------------------------
Fledderjohn wrote:
"I'm kind of with Yener on this. Too often real people playing real instruments are considered to be an expensive inconvenience..."
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Mirrored Shower wrote:
"When it comes to recording in a professional set up with a producer and musicians and a fat budget behind you, then I think there is no excuse not to use live musicians and try and keep it real. (I'm all for musicians union and agree with Plastic D and Yener on these points)."
-------------------------
Lee Viajero and the Edgy Drifters wrote:
"...create "music" without having to pay a real musician.
Seriously, sampling is GIGO."
------------------------
Yener Korkut wrote:
"As it was mentioned many times, the definition of "sampling" is very broad. Again, there is a huge difference between using pre-recorded samples (karaoke-like) which really sucks...Or instead, looping the sections like a sushi chef - all parts played and heard in "real time" in front of everybody on stage. That takes a bit of precision playing.
In all my 3 posts above, I was clearly after the corporate music and the big boys that walk in studios with 10lbs. of shinning hardware around their neck (when actual drummers, bass and keyboard players are readily available or a phone call away) talking about budget and demand that the beats and lines to be sampled/ ripped off. That sure reminds me of the corporations moving to 3rd world countries, creating sweat shops and paying 0.03 percent of the sale price of a product that sells for $169. in the department stores. ok! off topic but the mentality is similar.
A lone musician sampling his/her parts and looping them is purely a choice and I never criticized that. Using a drum machine and even drum sampling at home (sorry off topic again - I'm for students use of "handwritten" notes as references during school exams) is part of the learning process and very helpful, so is metronome. But, don't just put that on your CD for goodness sake...just like a cheap t-shirt you wear once and it looks and feels like a rag - because the sampling artist always knows that the dues haven't been paid.
An album should be looked at as an art form, your self-best effort that feels good when trying to earn a few bucks off it, and be proud of it...hopefully even 10 years from now."
-------------------
"Sampling: Sometimes enables semi-musicians and even the non-musician producers to create a piece (from start to finish) and commercially be very successful.
Sadly..."
------------------------------
Mr. Bone wrote:
"while i do understand this argument and tend to agree i still have to ask....
does sampling exhibit less talent than someone playing the good 'ol I IV V progression......again.....and again.....and again.....(ad nauseum)?"
--------------------------------
Yener Korkut wrote:
"Yes, sampling exhibits not only less talent but moral deficiency as well, esp. if it's done w/out permission.
Sampling your own music during the process is different: For instance, some musicians choose to play the entire chord progression all throughout, and some sample the sections and loop 'em. I personally play everything all throughout - but that's just a matter of taste.
Those good 'ol formats have been the source for many musicians (in every culture btw) to create many great melodies and many more to come I believe.
Interesting and good music could be simple and/or intricate, but interesting nevertheless."
-----------------------------
Dark Edge Music wrote:
"Yes but djay is also right Yener. You can cut and paste other peoples' work creatively in a way which modifies the original meaning. Like the best collage art."
----------------------------------
Yener Korkut wrote:
"You can play other peoples work creatively and be even called "the arranger" how nice - As long as appropriate credit has been given that is. I disagree with all the rest of the sampling world. Just a personal opinion.
Sampling a bass line or a drum part is something that I'm totally against. We've suffered enough from the rap and hip hop sampling scene - The mother of all sampling mentality.
As far as not being able to afford a violinist and stuff - There are keyboards and synthesizers available, and they are played by "musician(s)" - A player can sound just like an entire orchestra but still remain as the player/artist/musician."
-------------------------------
killinfolk wrote:
"...and to put a slice on our personal divide Yener, i agree that the majority of samplers are lazy talentless...(insert expletive of your choice), but that doesn't make sampling evil in theory
luvs-iain"
---------------------------
Yener Korkut wrote:
"Sampling is evil and has been for too many years. If a producer isn't able to play a particular instrument (two words here!!!), hire and pay for the musician who can. Pay your dues by way of either learning how to play or paying for it. Screw the McMusic mentality.
Regards"
---------------------------
Fledderjohn wrote:
"I'm kind of with Yener on this. Too often real people playing real instruments are considered to be an expensive inconvenience..."
--------------------------
Mirrored Shower wrote:
"When it comes to recording in a professional set up with a producer and musicians and a fat budget behind you, then I think there is no excuse not to use live musicians and try and keep it real. (I'm all for musicians union and agree with Plastic D and Yener on these points)."
-------------------------
Lee Viajero and the Edgy Drifters wrote:
"...create "music" without having to pay a real musician.
Seriously, sampling is GIGO."
------------------------
Yener Korkut wrote:
"As it was mentioned many times, the definition of "sampling" is very broad. Again, there is a huge difference between using pre-recorded samples (karaoke-like) which really sucks...Or instead, looping the sections like a sushi chef - all parts played and heard in "real time" in front of everybody on stage. That takes a bit of precision playing.
In all my 3 posts above, I was clearly after the corporate music and the big boys that walk in studios with 10lbs. of shinning hardware around their neck (when actual drummers, bass and keyboard players are readily available or a phone call away) talking about budget and demand that the beats and lines to be sampled/ ripped off. That sure reminds me of the corporations moving to 3rd world countries, creating sweat shops and paying 0.03 percent of the sale price of a product that sells for $169. in the department stores. ok! off topic but the mentality is similar.
A lone musician sampling his/her parts and looping them is purely a choice and I never criticized that. Using a drum machine and even drum sampling at home (sorry off topic again - I'm for students use of "handwritten" notes as references during school exams) is part of the learning process and very helpful, so is metronome. But, don't just put that on your CD for goodness sake...just like a cheap t-shirt you wear once and it looks and feels like a rag - because the sampling artist always knows that the dues haven't been paid.
An album should be looked at as an art form, your self-best effort that feels good when trying to earn a few bucks off it, and be proud of it...hopefully even 10 years from now."
-------------------